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WHy do we address men with titles???:
jim - 7/15/2012 7:20:03 PM
Good evening to all why is it that we elevate one man over another? It is wrong to call someone your pastor teacher deacon or bishop and these men know its wrong and they continually let people address them in such manner knowing its not scriptural please read the following scriptures matt 23:6-12 Job 32:21,22 and Deuteronomy 10:17 thank you
Re: WHy do we address men with titles???: Jisquared - 7/25/2012 8:13:23 AMShalom, this question is relevant and I wish to answer Jim positively. We all know that calling somebody by title is not bad because it attaches the person to the office he/she is delegated to. However there is one problem that man has never been able to do. That is delinking the title from the secular part of His life - that is outside the church. Therefore you will see them carrying the title back home and in all other social places. It's kind of they get drunk from it. And even though we know that all the five offices are equal, you will find that the title of pastor is more pronounced and held in high esteem than all the other 4 - read Ephesians 4:11. I can only say this is not Godly but it the problem of man and his attitude
Re: WHy do we address men with titles???: Jim davis - 10/14/2012 1:29:05 PMJesus condemned the religious leaders of his day for their love of titles and their desire for prominence. He said that those men loved "the first place at suppers and the front seats in the synagogues, and greetings in the market place, and to be called by men "Rabbi. Jesus then told his disciples: "Do not be called "Rabbi.for one is your Master,and all you are brothers.And call no one on earth your father; for one is your Father.who is in heaven.-Matthew 23:1-10
Re: WHy do we address men with titles???: Ellis - 7/17/2012 2:21:42 PMGreetings to all in the name of Jesus our Saviour.
The passage in Matt. mentioned above were in reference to those who don’t live by the standard set in the holy scriptures, but instead love to have glory of men with the titles given to them. The Job & Deut passages you mentioned were taken in the wrong context, as they don’t apply to leaders of our churches, or those with position. There ARE titles prescribed in the scriptures which can be applied to those that have duties in our churches. Apostles & Preachers (1 Tim. 1:1, 2:7; 2 Tim 1:1,11) Bishops & Deacons (1 Tim. 3:1-13). Evangelists, pastors, & teachers (Eph 4:10-12). These all were given for the “perfecting of the saints” – Eph. 4:12. So is it wrong to call a Pastor a Pastor, or a deacon a deacon? NO. The issue that plagues many churches is NOT the positions or titles, but those with these positions to live up to the duties to which they have been called. God Bless
Re: WHy do we address men with titles???: Jim davis - 11/17/2012 9:37:58 PMThe Bible’s Viewpoint
What About Honorary Titles?
AS FIRST-CENTURY Christians went about their daily activities and preached the good news of God’s Kingdom, they came into contact with a number of government officials—some minor and some high-ranking. Among themselves, Jesus’ followers used no titles to distinguish position, or station, in life. It was common back then, however, for individuals in power over their fellow men to be addressed with titles. The Roman emperor was referred to as “the August One.”—Acts 25:21.
So when appearing before government officials, how did Jesus’ disciples consider the use of honorary titles? How should we?
Re: WHy do we address men with titles???: Jim davis - 11/17/2012 9:40:08 PMHonor, Not Approval
The apostle Paul counseled fellow believers to “render to all their dues, . . . to him who calls for honor, such honor.” (Romans 13:7) This included addressing officials by their titles. Today such titles as Your Excellency and Your Honor are also customarily used to address those holding public office. But some may ask, ‘How can I address a person in such a way when I suspect that his conduct is neither honorable nor excellent?’
Many public officials discharge their duties conscientiously, yet not all of them inspire confidence. Even so, the Bible urges us to subject ourselves to kings and governors “for the Lord’s sake.” (1 Peter 2:13, 14) Hence, acknowledging the position of authority that an official occupies with God’s permission would move us to show respect and render the required honor.—Romans 13:1.
Re: WHy do we address men with titles???: Jim davis - 11/17/2012 9:49:08 PMAn official’s personal conduct is not at issue in this context. That is not the reason for rendering honor. Addressing an official by his honorary title does not indicate tacit approval of his conduct. This is shown by an episode in the life of the apostle Paul.
Re: WHy do we address men with titles???: Jim davis - 11/17/2012 9:51:17 PMPaul’s Use of Titles
The apostle Paul was arrested in Jerusalem on trumped-up charges and was led before Felix, governor of Judea. Felix was hardly an exemplary public official. The Roman historian Tacitus wrote that Felix “thought that he could do any evil act with impunity.” He was more interested in receiving a bribe than in rendering justice. Even so, during his two years in custody, Paul showed respect for the governor, and the two men conversed often—Felix hoping for money, which never came, and Paul using the opportunity to preach.—Acts 24:26.
When Festus succeeded Felix, the new governor heard Paul’s case in Caesarea. To win favor with the Jewish leaders, Festus suggested that Paul be tried in Jerusalem. But Paul knew that he could not get a fair trial there, so he took advantage of his Roman citizenship, declaring: “I appeal to Caesar!”—Acts 25:11.
Re: WHy do we address men with titles???: Jim davis - 11/17/2012 9:53:19 PMFestus was unsure of how to explain the accusations against Paul to Caesar, but help came when King Agrippa II paid Festus a courtesy visit and expressed interest in the case. The next day, with great pageantry, military commanders and local dignitaries accompanied the king into the audience chamber.—Acts 25:13-23.
When invited to speak, Paul used the title “King” in his opening comments and acknowledged Agrippa’s expertise in customs and controversies among the Jews. (Acts 26:2, 3) At the time, Agrippa was widely reputed to be involved in a scandalous, incestuous relationship with his sister. Surely Paul was aware of Agrippa’s tarnished reputation for being morally bankrupt. Still, Paul accorded him the honor due a king.
Re: WHy do we address men with titles???: Jim davis - 11/17/2012 9:57:26 PMDuring Paul’s defense, Festus exclaimed: “You are going mad, Paul!” Instead of being provoked, Paul responded calmly, addressing the governor as “Your Excellency.” (Acts 26:24, 25) Paul showed him the respect that was due his position. These examples, however, raise the question, Is there a limit to the honor that should be shown?
Re: WHy do we address men with titles???: Jim davis - 11/17/2012 9:59:34 PMRelative Honor
Governmental authority is relative, as indicated at Romans 13:1, which says: “The existing authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God.” Thus, the honor due governmental representatives is also relative. Jesus established the limit to the honor that ought to be rendered to others when he told his disciples: “Do not you be called Rabbi, for one is your teacher, whereas all you are brothers. Moreover, do not call anyone your father on earth, for one is your Father, the heavenly One. Neither be called ‘leaders,’ for your Leader is one, the Christ.”—Matthew 23:8-10.
Re: WHy do we address men with titles???: Jim davis - 11/17/2012 10:04:47 PMThe contrast between the religious and the secular thus sets the limit when it comes to according appropriate honor. In the event that secular officials adopt titles of a religious nature, Paul’s counsel to render them honor would not extend to the use of such titles. A person who follows Scriptural counsel would treat such officials respectfully. However, his Bible-trained conscience would motivate him to refrain from using any religious titles, since he is obliged to “pay back . . . God’s things to God.”—Matthew 22:21.
Re: WHy do we address men with titles???: Jim davis - 11/17/2012 10:07:26 PMHAVE YOU WONDERED?
▪ How did Jesus’ followers view the secular authorities?—Romans 13:7.
▪ Did the apostle Paul use honorary titles for government officials?—Acts 25:11; 26:2, 25.
▪ What kind of titles did Jesus disapprove of?—Matthew 23:8-10.
How will false religion end?:
Jim davis - 11/13/2012 12:23:30 PM
How Will False Religion End?
Picture the scene. A harlot is sitting on the back of a fearsome beast. The beast has seven heads and ten horns. (Revelation 17:1-4) Whom does the harlot represent? She exerts influence “over the kings of the earth.” She dresses in purple, uses incense, and is exceedingly wealthy. In addition, by means of her spiritistic practice, ‘all the nations are misled.’ (Revelation 17:18; 18:12, 13, 23) The Bible helps us to see that this harlot is a worldwide religious entity. She depicts, not any one religion, but all religions that produce rotten fruit.
The beast that the harlot rides pictures the world’s political powers.* (Revelation 17:10-13) False religion straddles the back of this political beast, attempting to influence its decisions and to control its direction.
Re: How will false religion end?: Jim davis - 11/13/2012 12:29:24 PMSoon, though, an amazing event will take place. “The ten horns that you saw, and the wild beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her devastated and naked, and will eat up her fleshy parts and will completely burn her with fire.” (Revelation 17:16) In a sudden, shocking move, the world’s political powers will turn on false religion and completely destroy her! What will prompt this action? The Bible book of Revelation answers: “God put it into their hearts to carry out his thought.” (Revelation 17:17) Yes, God will call false religion to account for all the despicable acts she has committed in his name. In a stroke of perfect justice, he will use her political paramours as his instrument of execution.
What must you do if you do not want to share the fate of false religion? “Get out of her, my people,” urges God’s messenger. (Revelation 18:4) Indeed, now is the time to flee from false religion! But to where can you flee? Not into atheism, since its future is also bleak.
Re: How will false religion end?: Jim davis - 11/13/2012 12:35:27 PM2 Thessalonians 1:6-9 I pray that this information will be helpful in establishing who Babylon the Great is
Lesson Require Further Study :
Pastor Faith - 10/25/2012 2:40:26 PM
I am very perplexed to say the least; how on earth can COG7th day conclude that "The Catholic Church" is Mystery Babylon the Great Mother of Harlots? KJV> Rev 17:9> The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. Should that be taken literally? Guys, these are very powerful assertions. Think this lesson require some deeper study before making such bold accusations; another sad day in the church’s history. God bless. Keep the faith
Re: Lesson Require Further Study : Jim davis - 10/26/2012 10:09:59 PMI agree brother I sent you an email because my findings were to long to post hope you find it helpful as I will add a little at a time each passing day
Re: Lesson Require Further Study : Jim davis - 10/26/2012 10:04:30 PMBABYLON THE GREAT
Among John’s visions recorded in the book of Revelation appear pronouncements of judgment against “Babylon the Great,” as well as a description of her and of her downfall.—Re 14:8; 16:19; chaps 17, 18; 19:1-3.
In Revelation 17:3-5, Babylon the Great is described as a woman arrayed in purple and scarlet, richly adorned, and sitting upon a scarlet-colored wild beast having seven heads and ten horns. Upon her forehead a name is written, “a mystery: ‘Babylon the Great, the mother of the harlots and of the disgusting things of the earth.’” She is also depicted as sitting on “many waters” representing “peoples and crowds and nations and tongues.”—Re 17:1-15.
The luxury and the dominion attributed to Babylon the Great do not allow for simply equating her with the literal city of Babylon in Mesopotamia. After ancient Babylon fell to Cyrus the Persian in 539 B.C.E., it lost its position as a dominant world power, its captives, including the Jews, being freed. Although the
Re: Lesson Require Further Study : Jim davis - 11/11/2012 3:50:12 PMcity continued to exist even beyond the days of the apostles, and hence existed in John’s day, it was no longer a city of world importance, and it eventually fell into decay and utter ruin. Thus, Babylon the Great must be viewed as a symbolic city, one of which the literal city of Babylon was the prototype. Because the ancient city gives the mystic city its name, it is helpful to consider briefly the outstanding features of Babylon on the Euphrates, features that provide clues as to the identity of the symbolic city of John’s vision.
Re: Lesson Require Further Study : Jim davis - 11/11/2012 3:53:38 PMCharacteristics of Ancient Babylon. The founding of the city of Babylon on the Plains of Shinar was concurrent with the attempt at building the Tower of Babel. (Ge 11:2-9) The popular cause to be advanced by the tower and city construction was, not the exaltation of God’s name, but that the builders might “make a celebrated name” for themselves. The ziggurat towers uncovered not only in the ruins of ancient Babylon but elsewhere in Mesopotamia would seem to confirm the essentially religious nature of the original tower, whatever its form or style. The decisive action taken by Jehovah God to overthrow the temple construction clearly condemns it as of a false religious origin. Whereas the Hebrew name given the city, Babel, means “Confusion,” the Sumerian name (Ka-dingir-ra) and the Akkadian name (Bab-ilu) both mean “Gate of God.” Thus the remaining inhabitants of the city altered the form of its name to avoid the original condemnatory sense, but the new or substitute form still identifie
Re: Lesson Require Further Study : Jim davis - 11/11/2012 3:56:06 PMThe Bible lists Babel first when giving the ‘beginning of Nimrod’s kingdom.’ (Ge 10:8-10) Throughout the Hebrew Scriptures the ancient city of Babylon is featured prominently as the longtime enemy of Jehovah God and his people.
Though Babylon became the capital of a political empire in the seventh and sixth centuries B.C.E., it was outstandingly prominent during its entire history as a religious center from which religious influence radiated in many directions.
Professor Morris Jastrow, Jr., in his work The Religion of Babylonia and Assyria (1898, pp. 699-701), says regarding this: “In the ancient world, prior to the rise of Christianity, Egypt, Persia, and Greece felt the influence of the Babylonian religion. . . . In Persia, the Mithra cult reveals the unmistakable influence of Babylonian conceptions; and if it be recalled what a degree of importance the mysteries connected with this cult acquired among the Romans, another link will be added connecting the ramifications of ancient
Re: Lesson Require Further Study : Jim davis - 11/11/2012 4:07:56 PMculture with the civilization of the Euphrates Valley.” In conclusion he refers to “the profound impression made upon the ancient world by the remarkable manifestations of religious thought in Babylonia and by the religious activity that prevailed in that region.”
Re: Lesson Require Further Study : Jim davis - 11/11/2012 4:10:02 PMBabylon’s religious influence is traced eastward to India in the book New Light on the Most Ancient East, by archaeologist V. Childe (1957, p. 185). Among other points he states: “The swastika and the cross, common on stamps and plaques, were religious or magical symbols as in Babylonia and Elam in the earliest prehistoric period, but preserve that character also in modern India as elsewhere.” Thus, ancient Babylon’s religious influence spread out to many peoples and nations, much farther and with greater potency and endurance than did her political strength.
Like mystic Babylon, the ancient city of Babylon, in effect, sat on the waters, located, as it was, astride the Euphrates River and having various canals and water-filled moats. (Jer 51:1, 13; Re 17:1, 15) These waters served as a defense to the city, and they provided the thoroughfares upon which ships brought wealth and luxuries from many sources. Notably, the water of the Euphrates is depicted as drying up prior to Babylon the
Re: Lesson Require Further Study : Jim davis - 11/11/2012 4:18:01 PMDistinguishing Features of Mystic Babylon. The symbolic woman bearing the name Babylon the Great is “the great city that has a kingdom over the kings of the earth,” a kingdom that allows her, in effect, to sit on “peoples and crowds and nations and tongues.” (Re 17:1, 15, 18) A kingdom over other kingdoms and nations is what is defined as an “empire.” Babylon the Great places herself above earthly kings, exercising power and influence over them. She rides the symbolic seven-headed beast, beasts being used elsewhere in the Bible as symbols of political world powers.—See BEASTS, SYMBOLIC.
Re: Lesson Require Further Study : Jim davis - 11/11/2012 4:20:00 PMSome scholars assume that Babylon the Great is a political empire, either Babylon or Rome. We have already seen that Babylon as a political empire had long since ceased to exist when John received his prophetic vision. As to Rome, the nature of its political rule does not harmonize with the description of Babylon the Great’s course and her methods of dominating. She is a harlot, committing fornication with the kings of the earth, making them drunk with the wine of her fornication, misleading the nations by her “spiritistic practice.” (Re 17:1, 2; 18:3, 23) Rome’s dominion, by contrast, was gained and maintained by its ironlike military might and its firm application of Roman law among its provinces and colonies. Recognizing this fact, The Interpreter’s Dictionary of the Bible says: “It is not sufficient to identify Rome and Babylon. Babylon embraces more than one empire or culture. It is defined rather by dominant idolatries than by geographical or temporal boundaries. Babylon is coext
Re: Lesson Require Further Study : Jim davis - 11/11/2012 4:21:41 PMcoextensive with the kingdom of that beast which has corrupted and enslaved mankind, and whom the Lamb must conquer (Rev. 17:14) if mankind is to be freed.”—Edited by G. Buttrick, 1962, Vol. 1, p. 338.
Re: Lesson Require Further Study : Jim davis - 11/11/2012 4:23:18 PMThe symbol of a harlot or a fornicatrix is used frequently in the Hebrew Scriptures. The nation of Israel was warned against entering into covenant relations with the nations of Canaan because this would lead them to commit “immoral intercourse [“play the harlot,” RS] with their gods.” (Ex 34:12-16) Both Israel and Judah apostatized from the true worship of Jehovah God and were condemned by him as having engaged in harlotry, prostituting themselves to the political nations and their gods. (Isa 1:21; Jer 3:6-10, 13; Eze 16:15-17, 28, 29, 38; Ho 6:10; 7:11; 8:9, 10) It may be noted here that God was not viewing Israel or Judah as mere political entities entering into relations with other political governments. Instead God reprimanded them on the basis of their being in a sacred covenant with him, hence responsible to be a holy people devoted to him and his pure worship.—Jer 2:1-3, 17-21.
Re: Lesson Require Further Study : Jim davis - 11/11/2012 4:24:44 PMA similar usage of this figure is found in the Christian Greek Scriptures. The Christian congregation is likened to a virgin espoused to Christ as her Head and King. (2Co 11:2; Eph 5:22-27) The disciple James warned Christians against committing spiritual adultery through friendship with the world. (Jas 4:4; compare Joh 15:19.) The fornications of Babylon the Great and her “daughters” are of a similar nature and not some unique exception. (The term “daughters” at times is employed in the Bible to refer to the suburbs or surrounding towns of a city or metropolis, as the “dependent towns” [literally, “daughters” in Hebrew] of Samaria and Sodom; see Eze 16:46-48.)
Re: Lesson Require Further Study : Jim davis - 11/11/2012 4:26:18 PMAn additional significant factor is that when Babylon the Great goes down under the devastating attack of the ten horns of the symbolic wild beast, her fall is mourned by her companions in fornication, the kings of the earth, and also by the merchants and shippers who dealt with her in supplying luxurious commodities and gorgeous fineries. While these political and commercial representatives survive her desolation, notably no religious representatives are depicted as still on the scene to share in mourning her downfall. (Re 17:16, 17; 18:9-19) The kings of the earth are shown as having judgment executed upon them sometime after mystic Babylon’s annihilation, and their destruction comes, not from the “ten horns,” but from the sword of the King of kings, the Word of God.—Re 19:1, 2, 11-18.
Re: Lesson Require Further Study : Jim davis - 11/11/2012 4:27:43 PMA further distinguishing characteristic of Babylon the Great is her drunkenness, she being pictured as “drunk with the blood of the holy ones and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus.” (Re 17:4, 6; 18:24; 19:1, 2) She thus is the spiritual counterpart of the ancient city of Babylon, expressing the same enmity toward the true people of God. Significantly, it was to the charge of religious leaders that Jesus laid the responsibility for “all the righteous blood spilled on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah.” While those words were addressed to religious leaders from among Jesus’ own race, the Jewish nation, and while persecution against Jesus’ followers was particularly intense from that sector for a time, history shows that thereafter the opposition to genuine Christianity came from other sources (the Jews themselves suffering considerable persecution).—Mt 23:29-35.
All the above factors are significant, and they must all be considered in arriving at a
Re: Lesson Require Further Study : Pastor Faith - 11/7/2012 11:57:59 PMThank you Bro.Jim for your email and its contents. I am proud that you have taken time to make your personal research and analysis. In the coming days, I will take time to study your findings. Keep up this good working practice. Keep the faith. God bless
Jesmion:
jesmion - 10/20/2012 5:41:31 PM
An angel of YHWH was going up to heaven in furious rages, and said to jesmion: the sunday's are turning monday as first day of the week and sabbath-saturday as six, and dont agree with them, the angel went up to heaven in a grievance, IAM JESMION, PROPHET OF YHWH TO THE NATIONS spinchat.com/hp/jesmiom
Re: Jesmion: jesmion - 10/20/2012 5:52:58 PMThe angel was furiously going to heaven, and as i jesmion saw him, he stop and tell me said: the sunday's are making monday to be firstday of the week, and sabbath as six days, and i dont agree with them, and the angel went up to heaven in grievance, spinchat.com/hp/jesmion
Religious titles:
Jim davis - 10/14/2012 1:37:40 PM
Do leaders of this religion like to be called by honorific titles and seek prominence in the community, or do they obey Jesus command to avoid doing so?
Re: A little consideration:
Simplytrusting - 8/17/2012 9:07:43 PM
Pastor Faith. I agree with your comment about adding more relevant pics on the teen column. I have enjoyed watching those there, so i am not a 'hater'; perhaps they can stay, but please if possible, find a way to add pics of other church events. thank u.
Re: A little consideration: Pastor Faith - 8/19/2012 5:35:31 PMSimplytrusting, like you, this is not about “HATE” I do not mind any wedding photo publications.. However, my concern is with regards to its “Time Duration”. All things considered, I believe that there are many other church activities or functions that should be granted equal publicity. The church site should not be treated like your “Personal Face Book page”. God bless! Keep the faith
Re: John Michael Brett:
Simplytrusting - 8/17/2012 9:01:51 PM
I am not suggesting that the word of God be changed and women be given roles such as Bishops... I am referring to personal experiences and observations whereby church moderators or leaders extend on the word of God, adding things that he never did, refraining from using sisters in capacities that God wishes to use them, (as he has given them his holy spirit ). Man cannot be more righteous than God. Very often, i think people behave in particular ways due to insecurities, not godliness.
A little Consideration!:
Pastor Faith - 8/13/2012 6:26:39 PM
Dear web master, we appreciate the display of wedding images posted in the Teen Colum of the site; but must it be sustained for such lengthy periods? With all due respect, It would be nice to catch up with aspects such as: Convention 2012, Photos of various Baptisms, Lord supper evenings, Various Church events, both local and regional; Youth camps and other progressive events; or introductions to various families of the church throughout the Caribbean and beyond. This is not a criticism, just an observation. Our lovely sight cannot be hijacked solely by the “Bold and Beautiful”. God bless! Keep the faith.
Sisterly Love:
Simplytrusting - 5/12/2012 1:22:23 PM
One may respond by saying that sisters choose not to comment on the lessons,,,but i hesitate to say that the subtle suggestions made about the secondary place of sisters in the church does not help our confidence or self-esteem when it comes to expressing ourselves freely..what is communicated to us, is that remaining quiet and passive is the same as humility and goodness..nothing could be further from the truth. How will the spirit given to us be stirred if we are stifled...are we just in church for aesthetic purposes? What must be changed is a very 'macho' mindset that some of our brethren have; albeit not all of them- a mindset which satisfies their ego, yet they confuse it for God's will and character. What must be changed is the thinking that a woman is less in wisdom and power of God, just because she is a woman.,what must be changed is the subtle suggestions given to our brothers that it's ok. to control every decision in
Re: Sisterly Love: Marlyn Alexander - 6/13/2012 7:16:48 PMtruth be told. I would wish one of the brothers would respond. would be interesting to hear what they have to say about the matter...
Re: Sisterly Love: JOHN MICHAEL BETT - 7/13/2012 4:43:35 PMMarlyn, Symplytrusting and Pastor Faith, it is not about what the brothers would say nor what the church teaches. It is about what the word of God says. I hope you are not disputing the following basic truths:
i. that the woman was made from man (Genesis 2:23, 1 Timothy 2:13,14)
ii. that certain roles were designated for men and others for women in the beginning (Genesis 3:16-speaks to the woman and Genesis 3:17 speaks to the man, Adam)
iii. that there are still women and men in the church today (Acts 1:13,14)
iv. that in the new testament church there is no record of any woman made a Pastor/church elder. Conditions were that "a bishop must be a husband of one wife.." (1 Timothy 3:2, Titus 1:6). Has this condition changed? If so, at what point?
v. that no woman was made a teacher in the new testament church (1 Timothy 2:11). Were they not capable?
vi. that the scriptures speak of several ways women can serve in the church (Romans 16:1, 1 Timothy 3:11). Have they abdicated these
Re: Sisterly Love: JOHN MICHAEL BETT - 7/13/2012 4:46:05 PMcritical duties?
In conclusion, I would say the problem is not that women have been suppressed. We just cannot comprehend how much the Lord has put in the hands of these wonderful creatures, if only we could discover the amazing resourcefulness in them. Just like Elijah prayed, so is my prayer "Lord open their eyes..."
Re: Sisterly Love: Pastor Faith - 6/16/2012 7:33:22 AMNoticeable, there are many things wrongs with the Church’s doctrines & mentality. Adopting a more liberal stance with regards to women’s participation in fellowship is just a fraction of the mass changes needed. One must understand that the Original Church has moved on from its early era. Moreover, in Christ, there is no more male or female. Did Christ give the supper to any woman? Yet today, we allow both male &female to partake. If we claim to walk after his steps, then we can’t have our cake and eat it. Is there one rule for one and not the other? If a sister is good enough to be led by the sprit, then she is good enough to preach. God bless. Keep the faith.
ORDINATION OF ELDERS:
Jisquared - 5/14/2012 9:37:10 AM
Hi brethren. There is a topic that has developed into a heated debate on ordination. There is one group of the true church saying that once a faithful is baptised, there is no further need to ordinate him as a member of the priesthood while the other is on the contrary. Can just anyone who is baptised carry out the work of baptising, laying-on of hands among others or has one to await until the Lord Himself sets him apart and thereafter he gets laid hands-on by Elders?
kindly I am requesting whoever can shed this light using the scriptural support to do so and Elohim will bless you.
Re: ORDINATION OF ELDERS: Gideon - 6/1/2012 11:32:27 AMJisquared, John Michael Bett did an amazing job explaining the answer to the question you asked. Jim, please understand that "God is not the author of confusion", but he asks us to "Honor authority". The importance of having order is because not everyone believes the same belief or doctrine, where it should be, "One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism". "EVERYTHING MUST be done decently and in order". Good job John. God Bless Jisquared, and I hope you provide solutions ONLY given in the scriptures and by the leading of God's Holy Spirit. Thank you Jim for your input.
Re: ORDINATION OF ELDERS: jim - 5/26/2012 12:06:29 AMOrdained as Ministers of the Kingdom
Complete immersion in water is a fitting symbol of their dedication to God. While under the water, it is as if they have died to their former course of life. On coming out of the water, it is as if they are now alive to a new course of self-sacrifice in service to God.—Compare Romans 6:2-4.
How, though, does ordination fit in with the action of baptism? Note what M’Clintock and Strong’s Cyclopædia of Biblical, Theological, and Ecclesiastical Literature (1877), Volume VII, page 411, says: “Ordination signifies the appointment or designation of a person to a ministerial office, whether with or without attendant ceremonies.” (Italics ours.) This acknowledges that there is no need for an elaborate ceremony or a certificate of ordination to be a Christian minister.
But does the Bible teach this? Consider Jesus Christ. There is no question that he was the foremost minister of God. Nevertheless, did he have some elaborate ordination ceremony before comm
Re: ORDINATION OF ELDERS: jim - 5/26/2012 12:14:28 AMcommencing his preaching work? Did he have a certificate identifying him as a minister? Quite the contrary. It was after his simply getting baptized in water that God expressed his approval of Jesus as his Son and ordained him as His minister.—Mark 1:9-11; Luke 4:18-21.
What of first-century Christians? There is no report of any ostentatious ordination for these early Christian ministers. The record in Acts repeatedly tells of the performance of simple baptisms of believers. This was followed by their zealously sharing in the public ministry.—See Acts 2:41-47; 8:36-39; 22:14-16.
What evidence did such ministers have of their ordination? Paul says at 2 Corinthians 3:1-3: “Are we starting again to recommend ourselves? Or do we, perhaps, like some men, need letters of recommendation to you or from you? You yourselves are our letter, inscribed on our hearts and known and being read by all mankind. For you are shown to be a letter of Christ written by us as ministers, inscribed not with i
Re: ORDINATION OF ELDERS: jim - 5/26/2012 12:19:04 AMink but with spirit of a living God, not on stone tablets, but on fleshly tablets, on hearts.” The effect of God’s spirit on these taught ones’ hearts produced a new Christian personality, which could be read by all observers. This was sufficient testimony that God had indeed ordained the ones sharing in teaching these new disciples
Re: ORDINATION OF ELDERS: JOHN MICHAEL BETT - 5/18/2012 2:04:54 PMJisquared, you raise a pertinent issue that has been a thorn in the church through the ages. As much as the word of Elohim is point clear on this, personal, selfish ambition has brought confusion. However, brethren this should not be so. Paul admonished the church in Corinth regarding the need for order (1 Cor 14:40). This means, the church is a complete, organised, functional and living unit with separate parts (1 Cor 12, Romans 12:4-8) with separate parts working for the common good of all (vs 25). Eldership is an offshoot of the whole, which should be honored just as the others (vs 23, 28). How then are these gifts obtained? All these are given by appointment from God through the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 4:11). It is therefore important to note that gifts of administration: bishophood, eldership, pastorship, deaconship are also gifts. Paul set an order for appointing holders of these offices out of which it is clear that baptism is not the only qualifying criteria (1 Tim 3). Ordinatio
Re: ORDINATION OF ELDERS: JOHN MICHAEL BETT - 5/18/2012 2:07:32 PMOrdination signify a setting aside for special service as was practiced in the early church (1 Tim 1:6, Acts 14:23, Acts 13:2-3). I would conclude by saying if proper order and respect for each ministration is followed as demanded by the Gospel, the Church would achieve its mission and people would testify of our oneness and discipleship to the ministry of Jesus (John 17:23). God bless.
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Saturday, May 18, 2013
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ALMIGHTY GOD
YHWH has power over kingdoms, power over the elements, and He only has power to create life. He is the only Almighty.
Kerry Thomas - Come Back Home
 If you like Reggae, you will love this album. This album has a nice Caribbean flavor. I am very proud to present to you Kerry's new album. Please be sure to support him.
Elsa President - Where Are You
 I am proud to present to you our very own, Elsa President. You will truly enjoy this album, like I have. You can buy her CD from various stores online. Click to find out more information.
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